Comments on: Move Over Learning Curve! Bring on the Learning Square! http://azargrammar.com/teacherTalk/blog/2010/07/move-over-learning-curve-bring-on-the-learning-square/ Teachers Helping Teachers Wed, 08 Feb 2012 01:43:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Tamara Jones http://azargrammar.com/teacherTalk/blog/2010/07/move-over-learning-curve-bring-on-the-learning-square/comment-page-1/#comment-582 Tamara Jones Tue, 03 Aug 2010 11:10:44 +0000 http://azargrammar.com/teacherTalk/blog/?p=445#comment-582 I would have probably agreed with your opposition to gap fills a few years ago, until I sat on the other side of the desk. As a French student, I like gap fills because the “drill work” you refer to actually helps me remember the grammar to use in a conversation. I have developed a new appreciation of controlled practice (in moderation) as a stepping stone to that much coveted balance between fluency and accuracy. I say “in moderation” because I, too, have seen students who can fill in blanks until the end of time but can’t carry on a conversation. In my opinion, I like to see a balance of both. I would be very interested in some specific examples of what you mean by “input, providing students with learning opportunities, and supporting output.” I would have probably agreed with your opposition to gap fills a few years ago, until I sat on the other side of the desk. As a French student, I like gap fills because the “drill work” you refer to actually helps me remember the grammar to use in a conversation. I have developed a new appreciation of controlled practice (in moderation) as a stepping stone to that much coveted balance between fluency and accuracy. I say “in moderation” because I, too, have seen students who can fill in blanks until the end of time but can’t carry on a conversation. In my opinion, I like to see a balance of both.

I would be very interested in some specific examples of what you mean by “input, providing students with learning opportunities, and supporting output.”

]]> By: Nick Jaworski http://azargrammar.com/teacherTalk/blog/2010/07/move-over-learning-curve-bring-on-the-learning-square/comment-page-1/#comment-581 Nick Jaworski Sat, 31 Jul 2010 22:17:24 +0000 http://azargrammar.com/teacherTalk/blog/?p=445#comment-581 I would also argue that the gap fills are a complete waste of classroom time to begin with. The problem is that students are focusing on rules and simply filling in blanks when that doesn't help them in real language use, as your student pointed out. I feel there is very little correlation to gap fill drill work and acquisition as they are often disconnected from live language use. Many students can ace gap-fill grammar tests and not be able to speak a word, which simply points to their lack of efficacy. It's really impossible to apply rules across the board anyway, especially if their isn't an equivalent in the L1. I can tell you that we often use present subjunctive for suggestions or desires, but can most teachers give me examples of it? No. So why we do expect students to find it useful? The key here is input, providing students with learning opportunities, and supporting output. To be honest, I can't remember the last time I used a gap-fill and I rarely explicitly teach grammar rules, yet my students achieve high degrees of language competency fairly quickly. I think the learning square needs to be reversed. First students learn what language to use in a given situation, they then start to take that apart, finally they apply it in wider contexts and use it when appropriate. I would also argue that the gap fills are a complete waste of classroom time to begin with. The problem is that students are focusing on rules and simply filling in blanks when that doesn’t help them in real language use, as your student pointed out.

I feel there is very little correlation to gap fill drill work and acquisition as they are often disconnected from live language use. Many students can ace gap-fill grammar tests and not be able to speak a word, which simply points to their lack of efficacy.

It’s really impossible to apply rules across the board anyway, especially if their isn’t an equivalent in the L1. I can tell you that we often use present subjunctive for suggestions or desires, but can most teachers give me examples of it? No. So why we do expect students to find it useful?

The key here is input, providing students with learning opportunities, and supporting output.

To be honest, I can’t remember the last time I used a gap-fill and I rarely explicitly teach grammar rules, yet my students achieve high degrees of language competency fairly quickly.

I think the learning square needs to be reversed. First students learn what language to use in a given situation, they then start to take that apart, finally they apply it in wider contexts and use it when appropriate.

]]> By: Michelle Batista-Jarosch http://azargrammar.com/teacherTalk/blog/2010/07/move-over-learning-curve-bring-on-the-learning-square/comment-page-1/#comment-578 Michelle Batista-Jarosch Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:26:56 +0000 http://azargrammar.com/teacherTalk/blog/?p=445#comment-578 Loved it! Nice and clear and easy to understand. I will share this with my students and other teachers. Thnaks. Loved it! Nice and clear and easy to understand. I will share this with my students and other teachers. Thnaks.

]]> By: Tamara Jones http://azargrammar.com/teacherTalk/blog/2010/07/move-over-learning-curve-bring-on-the-learning-square/comment-page-1/#comment-577 Tamara Jones Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:35:40 +0000 http://azargrammar.com/teacherTalk/blog/?p=445#comment-577 Absolutely! I also think telling them HOW you manage to keep improving your Spanish after taking language classes is helpful. Absolutely! I also think telling them HOW you manage to keep improving your Spanish after taking language classes is helpful.

]]> By: Julie Feferman http://azargrammar.com/teacherTalk/blog/2010/07/move-over-learning-curve-bring-on-the-learning-square/comment-page-1/#comment-576 Julie Feferman Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:21:41 +0000 http://azargrammar.com/teacherTalk/blog/?p=445#comment-576 I agree, nice chart. It is helpful also if you (the teacher) has also learned a second language, and can share with students some observations about your own process of learning. I speak English and learned Spanish. It took me about 6 years in a semi-immersion process to become conversationally fluent. However,my speaking and grammar and vocabulary continued to improve year by year since. I tell students this and they are surprised. It is also helpful to remind them that native speakers are also still acquiring new bits of our own language as needed. I agree, nice chart. It is helpful also if you (the teacher) has also learned a second language, and can share with students some observations about your own process of learning. I speak English and learned Spanish. It took me about 6 years in a semi-immersion process to become conversationally fluent. However,my speaking and grammar and vocabulary continued to improve year by year since. I tell students this and they are surprised. It is also helpful to remind them that native speakers are also still acquiring new bits of our own language as needed.

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